"IT IS OUR FAULT THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT
KNOW CHRIST"
Metropolitan
Athanasios of Limassol talks about end times, trust in God and the mission of
Church
Metropolitan
Athanasios of Limasol
How unique
are our times? How to overcome spiritual weakness? What to do if you don’t have
an experienced spiritual father? How to pray and support the mission of Church?
What is contemporary monasticism? Why must married PEOPLE read paterikons?
Well-known Greek preacher, Metropolitan Athanasios of Limassol, answers these
and other questions.
—Your Eminence,
do you have a feeling that we live in abnormal times? I understand that I sound
grumpy, as PEOPLE always complain that in the past the sun was brighter, the
grass was greener and the people were kinder. However, today many people, not
only Christians, have a general feeling of anxiety and uneasiness.
—I think that
we have grown older and that is why we idealize the past and think that it was
better than the present. Obviously, the world is heading toward the end times.
However, there is no “yesterday” or “tomorrow” for Christians. There is only
“today”, which is LIVED in the presence of God through the sacraments of Church
and Divine Liturgy. When we celebrate Church holidays, we say “Christ is born
today,” “Today is the Baptism of Christ,” or “Today Christ is crucified.” This
way we live by today and the Kingdom of Heaven that will come in the end. I
think, my dear, that we must be thankful to God for the Kingdom of Heaven. As
Elder Paisios used to say, the more tribulations we go through, the more God
blesses us.
—So there is
no “yesterday” or “today” in Church; but strange things are happening in the
world outside of Church’s fence: same-sex marriages are being legalized and in
some places killing old people has become legal, if they, or possibly, those
who got tired of looking after them, requested it. We see unprecedented
propaganda of debauchery; we see iniquities happening right before our eyes.
Aren’t we right when we say that our world is different from what it was only
50 years ago?
— It is a pity
that our brothers do not know the Holy Gospel and do the things you described.
We pray for them and for the entire world.
The
conditions were always difficult for our Church.
Think about
this: The conditions were always difficult for our Church. It was founded at
the time of idolatry. For centuries, it was persecuted. Remember what happened
in Russia only several decades ago? Regardless, our Church continues to
persevere. We do not despair; instead we thank God for leading us to Church and
pray to Him, asking to let us stay in the Church. We pray for the people who
are outside of Church, so that these brothers of ours would experience God,
because this is also our responsibility. We know that the devil is the prince
of this world outside of Church. But Christ will triumph over the devil and
those who seek Christ’s truth will always be with Him. It is the greatest
responsibility of the people of the Church to preach the truth of the Gospel to
those who want to hear it.
—In the
1990-ies, Russia experienced a colossal surge of spiritual enthusiasm, but
today we clearly see that people’s interest in faith is on the decline. This
means that the people who should be the “children of the kingdom” have chosen a
totally different kingdom and a different master, rather than Christ. How
should Christians maintain their zeal?
— People’s
backsliding from Christ is always the reason for sorrow for Christians, but it
also becomes a motivation for showing love and praying for those who have
strayed from Christianity. We need to treat those who don’t believe in Christ
with great love and great sorrow. In the Gospel, Christ tells us that we should
“let our light so shine before men”, that they may know God. (Mt. 5:16).
It is our
fault that there are people who do not know Christ. We must feel a tremendous
responsibility for the souls of such people. If we become saints, we will
attract people to Christ. Our problem, however, is the lack of holiness within
us. Therefore, we are unfair toward our brothers who don't see the holiness
within us and as a result are not drawn closer to the Gospel. So, what we
really need is holiness and saints in the Church.
—My question
was a bit different: What can be used to maintain the Christian faith and
aspirations of holiness, if our belief is on the decline after the first
passionate years of embracing Christianity? We see that tragedies occur even in
the families of priests. A wife of a priest I knew left him, some seminary
students I was acquainted with got divorced. Unfortunate things happen where we
thought they simply couldn’t happen. What must contemporary Christians focus on
to keep this from happening?
—Surely, our
life will always be full of temptations. And of course all these temptations
will try to eradicate our love of God. In addition to being vigilant and active
in our lives, it is very important for people who want to preserve the warmth
in their hearts to have a righteous and pious spiritual father that they can
turn to in difficult times of temptation. Guided by the Grace of the Holy
Spirit, our spiritual fathers help us keep the love of God in our hearts. We
must also nourish our souls by praying and reading spiritual books. That is
how, with the help of our spiritual fathers, we will be able to overcome the
tribulations in our lives and in the world around us.
—You said
that it is good to have a spiritual father, but currently in Russia there are
many young priests who simply don’t have enough spiritual experience or special
spiritual gifts. What should the majority of Christians, who cannot communicate
with saintly people, do?
—Elder
Paisios used to say that when there is no help from man, there is abundant help
from God. What you say is, of course, very logical. However, it is not so
according to God’s logic. God doesn’t need me or anybody else, even Elders
Porphyrios and Paisios. God can implement His will in the souls of people
Himself, and that is why we should never despair.
Church is a
sacrament of God’s presence and manifestation in this world. If you approached
Elder Paisios without faith, you would not benefit from this at all. And the
other way around: If you approach your spiritual father with faith and
humbleness in the name of Christ, you will receive the answer that would
reflect God’s will.
On Mt. Athos,
I heard a story about a monk whose spiritual father passed AWAY. This monk put
the elder’s clothes on a log and said, “Since I don’t have a spiritual father,
I will be asking this log.” And that is what he started doing. Once, when he
asked the log a question, he heard the voice saying, “No, don’t do that!”
God acts in
accordance with our faith. I understand you very well, but we are in trouble if
we expect support from people and not from God. Even in Greece, many people
didn’t know Elders Paisios and Porphyrios, even though they were extraordinary
SAINTS. What is important is that the Church of Christ continues its mission.
— If your
faith is alive and you love God, you do not need anything but God and His
Church. But how do you save yourself if your faith and zealousness are on the
decline and you feel that you need this world that according to the apostle
“lieth in wickedness”?
— Such
Christians should do what Apostle Peter did when he started drowning. He cried,
“Lord, save me!” And God stretched out his hand and saved him.
Christ is
alive! He is always near. And anybody who asks Him for help will receive it.
— What if you
pray, but don’t get any tangible responses to your prayers? What if it seems
that God doesn’t answer?
— If you wait
for the results of your prayers, you will never see them, because the starting
point of such a prayer is wrong. I don’t pray to get any results. I pray so
that God forgives my sins and has mercy on me.
God gives us
His Body and Blood, forgives us our sins and through Church bestows the grace
of the Holy Spirit upon us. So all we need to do is pray to God for His Mercy
in a humble and simple manner. A humble person trusts God and doesn’t doubt
that God hears him. If you want to see the results of your prayer, this means
that you doubt it. Since God doesn’t want our own pride to harm us, He conceals
the fruits of our prayer. Quite likely, He will show them to us when we become
humble, and we will be able to enjoy the fruits of the prayer without even
understanding it.
One elder
told the monk who always wanted to see the fruits of his prayers, “You are like
that person who after putting a seed in the ground digs it out every day to see
if it took roots. Leave that seed in the ground, water it and take care of it,
and then it will grow on its own.”
— How can we
explain this truth to PEOPLE outside of Church? Many people think that life is
a supermarket where you can quickly buy something. They light a candle and
expect God to cure cancer, help them find an apartment or a job, etc.
— We are not
God’s lawyers. We don’t always have to explain what God does for each person.
We must teach PEOPLE to love God as children love Him, not as supermarket
buyers.
We need to
trust God and God’s Will. God will find a way to the heart of every person and
we shouldn’t worry about what happens with the world and the people in it.
Christ is the Savior of the world. He was crucified for the sake of the people
and He won’t be unjust toward anybody. God will address the heart of every
person, when He is needed. If God is silent, so are we.
Everybody
must yield their souls to God’s Will. Sometimes, in order to feel God in your
heart, you have to LIVE through many sorrows, trials and misunderstandings. Do
you remember what happened with Job the Long-Suffering? God let him experience
a great number of trials and addressed him only at the very end. God knows when
it is time to talk to a person’s heart. We must trust God and His love of the
entire world. When we see somebody who needs God, we must pray for this person,
and God will surely touch his heart.
— How should
the Church implement its mission then? You say that we shouldn’t worry about
what happens with the world and that God will talk to the hearts of people in
due time. This could mean that we shouldn’t worry about if and when people go
to Church. However, we do need to do something to bring people to Church. What
should be the true mission of Church?
— A farmer
sows a seed in the field, then prays to God to make this seed grow and doesn’t
worry about it. Likewise, we must sow seeds and water them but not worry about
their growth.
— To what
extent then can we approach the world to try to influence it? The Russian
Church has been discussing appropriate methods of missionary work for a long
time. For example, can priests go to ROCK concerts, play soccer and so FORTH?
Can these methods be used to bring people to Church?
— I think the
world doesn’t need us at the rock concert or a soccer match. I believe that the
world needs us to be where people can find us—that is we need to be at the
analogion in the church, taking confessions and being available for spiritual
conversation. People need to hear the Word of God from us. They need us to
accept them with love and kindness. They don’t need us to attend a soccer match
or drink alcohol at a disco. They need our love, kindness and holiness of life.
— For two
years in a row, you have been coming to Russia to attend the conference on
monasticism. How would you describe the current situation with monasticism?
— I am very
touched that His Holiness Patriarch Kirill, archpriests and priests show
concern about the matters of contemporary monasticism. Obviously, there are
many issues to discuss, focus on and improve, but this can be said not only
about Russia, but even about Mt. Athos. Every country has its own traditions,
rules and people. Monastics emerge in various countries and LIVE among the
local people. I think that everything is going well. This doesn’t mean that I
don’t see the reality. I see that everything is developing in a natural way,
and abbots and abbesses are committed to correcting some shortcomings and
learning to do things in a better way.
— Is there
any connection between good Christian families and good monastics?
— I always say
that a good monk would be a good family man and a bad monk, if he got married,
would be a bad family man. Christians’ goal in monasticism and marriage is the
same—it is the eternal UNION with Christ. This is what we need to aspire to
both in monasticism and married life. You can ask me whether it is better to
achieve this goal in monasticism, but I can’t say so. Everybody has to do what
is fitting for them in order to find Christ.
— We often
hear PEOPLE say, “What can monastics know about family life?”
— One needs
to look below the surface here, and the bottom line remains the same. The
writings of ascetic monks teach us to overcome egoism and passions and put off
“the old self” so we can start communicating with ourselves, other people and,
most importantly, God. Married people must read paterikons to learn how to
build a good family, because paterikons contain answers to many of the problems
that we encounter in our LIVES.
— Your
eminence, as a ruling bishop of a large diocese, spiritual father and abbot of
many monasteries, do you have time to take confessions and provide spiritual
guidance to laypeople?
— Everywhere
in the Greek-speaking world—not only on Cyprus—bishops dedicate a lot of time
to hearing the confessions of their laity. Our confessions are different from
confessions in Russia. As far as I know, you have a fairly short confession
limited to listing of the sins. Our PEOPLE are used to confessing differently:
confession may take several hours because confessants tell about their sins and
problems, ask questions, and basically speak about everything that bothers
them.
Several days
ago, a young teacher came to me for confession. He came at 5 pm and LEFT at 6
am. Thank God, he was the only one on that day (laughs).
— If you hear
the confessions of so many people, you know the general state of the souls of
your parishioners. What sins are most typical in our times?
— One of the
reasons that I personally take confessions is that I don’t want to lose my
contact with people, I don’t want to sit in the office and be some kind of
manager. Confession is the simplest way to learn what people think about and to
understand their problems or concerns. I am very happy when people view their
bishop as their father. I am happy when I know that people can come to my
church and find me there to tell me about their problems.
I go to my
diocesan office once or twice a month. I feel like a mayor there, so I prefer
being in the church and meeting PEOPLE there. Church is the natural place for
the bishop to be.
— Still, what
in your opinion is the biggest spiritual problem of our times?
— You see,
the name of the sin (murder, abortion, lust…) is not important; it is the core
of the sin that is important. And the core of any sin is forsaking God.
In Greek the
word “sin” (ἁμαρτία) means “missing the target”. When
ancient Greeks shot arrows and missed they exclaimed “Imarton!” (ἥμαρτον),
which meant “I have sinned,” that is, “I have missed the target”. When people
do not have Christ in their hearts, they make the wrong choices.
I became a
spiritual father and started taking confessions when I LIVED on Athos and was
very young. Once I asked Elder Paisios what I should ask the people who come to
confession. Some of them asked me to ask them questions so they would answer.
Elder Paisios told me, “Try to avoid asking questions, but if people insist,
your first question should be ‘Do you love God? What is your relationship with
God?’ Then ask them if they love people around them, if they love themselves
and their situation, and only after that ask them about the rest.” That is why
God says that the first and the greatest commandment is to “love the Lord thy
God with all thy heart” (Mt. 22:37-38). The rest will follow.
— You
mentioned Elder Paisios. You probably often remember the teachings of Elders
Paisios, Porphyrios and Joseph.
— It is true.
God arranged so that when I was a student, a very young man, I met many
contemporary saints. I knew Elder Athanasios from the monastery. In another
monastery on Cyprus, I talked to another Elder Athanasios, also a very pious
man. Later, when I came to Greece, I got acquainted with Elder Ephraim, Elder
Charalampus from Dionysiou monastery, Elder Ephraim who now LIVES in Arizona,
USA, Elder Joseph who was my spiritual father and tonsured me. God graced me to
meet Elder Porphyrios, Elder Jakob from Euboea, Elder Philotheos, Elder
Sophronius from Essex, Elder Emilian from Monastery of Simonos Petra and many
other lesser-known elders. I heard many recommendations and homilies from all
of them.
The general
feeling that I got from communicating with all these PEOPLE was that due to
God’s grace they were spiritually and psychologically healthy. They did not
have any shortcomings. They were not excessively strict. The elders were
even-tempered, reasonable and tactful people. They were full of love of God and
love of people. They were very happy people too.
When you
looked at any of them, you thought that this was the kind of man that God
created, because they kept the image of God in their hearts and looked like
their Heavenly Father. They were all children of the Church. They all taught
that we should always be in touch with Church, have peace in our souls despite
the circumstances in our lives and look at everything through the eyes of
Christ. I could talk about them for hours, but I don’t want to take too much of
your time.
— Surely,
there are some specific teachings that stand out in your mind. Which ones do
you recall more often in conversations?
— Elder
Paisios always called on PEOPLE to work hard lest God be disappointed. In
particular, he used to say, “I know that I deserve to go to Hell, but I don’t
want to go there lest I disappoint Jesus.”
Elder Ephraim
of Katounakia kept on saying that fulfilling their obedience is everything for
monks.
Elder
Porphyrios used to say that God is everything—“We are always happy to be with
Christ and we will go wherever he goes. Even if we have to go to hell, we would
happily go there if Christ is with us”.
The lives of
these saints had one thing in common—they all LIVED by Christ. I remember that
when our Elder Joseph came to dine with us and we read some spiritual
instructions or a book, as soon as he heard the word “Christ” he would start to
cry and wouldn’t be able to eat.
— Your
eminence, thank you very much for this insightful conversation. As an epilogue,
could you say something for our readers?
— I can’t say
anything on my own behalf. All those speeches and sermons published by our
brothers in Russia, for which I am very thankful, are also not the words said
on their own behalf.
I can only
say that we all need to love Christ, and if we have Him in our hearts,
everything will be all right. If not, everything will fall apart.
Anton
Pospelov spoke with Metropolitan Athanasios of Limasol
Translated
from the Russian version by Talyb Samedov
14 / 06 / 2015
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